Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Wow - I get called to New York for a few days, come back to find all H has broken loose. lol
I am fascinated to catch up on all the views, but I have more catching up in some promised readings.

I am a bit eye-fatigued so I will not go back to cut and paste previous information, but I would like to speak to a few things.

1 Your character is defined by what you do when no one is looking. I know of quite a few (not all) "Bible-thumpers" who would not pass a moral character test based on this fact. Evil is committed by evil people. They can be dressed as kings or diplomats or sport heroes or bus drivers (whatever). Actions always speak louder than words.

2 I do not believe God knows how everything will turn out. This assumption not only contradicts but subverts "free choice". It does not mean that God's heart does not break when we choose to "stray", if you will. To me, only one man was ever born with a destiny.

3 Someone (I think CadCrick) made mention of provable/tangible facts. A few hundred years ago - if you pulled out a polaroid camera or a microscope - and tried to make people understand that liquid and light could make pictures on paper or microbes swam in water and blood cells attacked invading infection bacteria (things you could not see, smell, touch) -
you would have burned as a witch or been stoned to death. Science is continually "proving" now - what many had no proof of centuries ago, but they still believed.

4 It all comes down to what you believe. Are you evil if you do not bellieve in God? No.
Are you a bad person? No. Are you an intelligent being and a loyal friend? Depends on what your friends say. But to believers in the Christian faith, there is redemption for ALL
sins if you believe in one thing. And if you do not believe, well, have a happy afterlife whatever it is.

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

(My Creativity On The 10 Commandments)

OBEDIENCE OF 10

As you read the love letter
You whisper and your speech becomes better
What�s coming, following, faithfully, servicing
is where awareness starts
Providence people place promise in
Prophecy in their hearts
Not just words it�s your life
D 32:46, 47
The children are on their way to heaven

So God help us
The truth that�s in at hand
All is sworn on the book and witness upon the land
What is old should be told
And listen to what is in
This is where it stands
This is where it begins
Counting the obedience of ten

1 we can�t have no more than one
as the earth has the free bright full sun

2 undo the distorted art into
You wouldn�t like it if it weren�t you

3 don�t conceit to scorn the lord
It cuts off your biblical cord

4 is an unlocked door way
Do not runaway from Sunday

5 is a place you can�t erase
Regard the beings that gave you your face

6 get this, think twice thrice
Before you knife a life

7 the false views of earthly heaven lie
Minds go blind so why color dye your eyes

8 on fingerless hands Doctors operate
Five-finger discounts have no rebate

9 to endure deceptive evidence
dims the shine of the shrine

10 one day we will share, but obey until then
What�s yours is yours, and mine is mine

So God help us
The truth that�s in at hand
All is sworn on the book and witness upon the land
What is old should be told
And listen to what is in
This is where it stands
This is where it begins
The obedience of ten

Last edited by WordSlinger 05-27-2009 at 03:20:41 PM

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Take a look at a book titled, "23 Minutes In Hell" or "Hell", both are by the same author. It really got me thinking. Keep smilin'.

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

"23 MINUTES IN HELL," How do you process something like that? How much of what we understand is what we need to know to bring salt and light into this world?
I confess - when I think of the tangle of different colored threads woven throughout Christiandom I think ... well, it's not all that pretty, but it least it takes the chill of winter out of some uncertain thoughts. I have no axe to grind - I also know the Lord is not interested in my arguments about the tenants of belief I might try to advance. I take confidence in the written promise that ... "nothing is hidden that shall not be revealed." Much more than that ... and vanity takes over.
I think - the devil is in the details" is a good take on a good portion of what we think we understand. A personal for instance ... I had a vision as a child that I would be marrying a woman with emotional problems. I saw her situation. I saw the trials we each would go through and that God was watching over it all. Thirty five years later, It happened somewhat like I saw it -with the exception of the fact that I never got married to her. Long story short ... I was deceived.The enemy gives out pictures for us to watch too.
I read the passages where-in the worms crawl in and out and the pit of sulfer is like a burning that never quits. Yet in all that, (not unlike many unbelievers), I don't see the tares of this world marinading forever in that stew. In the book of Revelation I see where man is judged after his body dies. "It is appointed unto man, once to die, and after that - the judgment." We soon see Lucifer and all his fallen cohorts being cast into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity. But just before that, the angels of God are commanded to cast all souls who have made the decision to follow Satan's ways, into the pit prepared for Lucifer and his angels. One thing we can know is that celestial beings were created eternal - 'Makes sense to me! They happened to be living in ETERNITY.
But ... Mankind was formed, it says from the dust of the earth. In the Garden of Eden we found that God had expressed concern that if mankind were to go further in their sin by eating from the tree of "The TREE of LIFE" Two angels with swords were set over the garden to prevent the humans from getting back into the garden.More damage would truly have been done. If Adam and Eve were to have eaten of the fruit of the TREE of LIFE, they would be like the angels and never die. 'Not talking about the body here- the body is time expired. The soul is the person you are.
If man goes to hell, he or she can never expect to be writhing in pain through all eternity if only for the fact that his soul was not created eternal. Eternal life is touted to be the prime gift to mankind when we get through that Heavenly meeting called the White Throne of Judgment. Again - Revelation tells us when talking about souls sent to hell. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH! The question hardly needs to be asked ... What is death?!? Death is the cessation of LIFE! Webster has no problem with it, and I trust the man and he's loaded in my laptop.
Be eternal and you'll burn forever if thrown into the lake of fire.

Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Thank you uspslady

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

To Mr AlexGray

Thank you for inspiring me.
It is nice to meet ya,
Enjoy life my friend, enjoy life.
This poem was inspired by you thank you..

THE VOW

The Devil wants to buy a vowel
He likes to hear us growl
He really likes our thrown in the towel
So that�s how we wind up in hell?

WordSlinger wants to buy a vowel
His time in life, spends it well
He really likes poetry, makes him swell
So that�s how he stays out of hell

So take the little hint,
and read the red print
Where we lead our soul
is where it will have went
And as time tells
Everyone wants to buy a vowel
So take your vow and bow

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

I've read through all of this thread, and I'm not sure what to make of this question myself.

But I will tell you what I feel at the moment.


If the classical interpretation of Hell were to exist (dark fire, eternal suffering, etc.), I think it would be reserved for those individuals who actually believed in it and wanted to end up there. Basically, humans who have denounced God as their enemy and done everything they could to be evil in their physical form. These people would be very rare.

I do agree with the notion, though, that God could not have allowed such a cesspool of darkness to exist. I'm not sure how to elaborate on this and convey my true opinion.

If nothing else, I believe in the strength of faith. I believe in the lessons that the accounts presented in holy scriptures---notably the Bible---teach to us as a cohesive society. At its base, for me, love is the strongest force in the universe. It's not about everyone being happy and enjoying life, rather things like hope, grace and majesty. Things that only exist in dreams: even nightmares.

How can one wind up in Hell? By completely disowning love.

Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

I am one who believes in Heaven and Hell but not as most people. I don't know much about Heaven and don't think there are alabaster mansions and gold streets. It is where God exists and where believers in Him go. They simply spend eternity with God after the resurrection of the faithful. Those who do not believe in God simply did and are forever are without the presence of God. I don't have to be scared into believing that there is some place of torture where I will go if I don't believe in God. If we believe in God, there is no need to fear death. If we don't believe in God, we live without Him, just as we did in life. Everlasting life begins when we first believe, so death is a trasition for believers.

Daniel H Doster+

Re: Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

The bottom line for the Anglican denomination sort of says it for all of us, when ever that heart searching question - "Why am I here????" comes to our lips;

"The chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever."
and if you're into parsing the rules of the road (of life)? Here's a re-write of the original Puritan take on it.

http://www.puritansermons.com/watson/watson5.htm

Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

I think before we can determine how one can "wind up in hell", we'd have to agree on what hell is. I think there may be a lot of differing ideas.

Do I believe in a fire that destroys but never consumes? No. I think that is a poetic depiction of torment. Do I believe it is possible, even, to fall from the grace of God? No again. Our separation from God is but an illusion. I think.

I do believe, though, that we can torment and torture ourselves. Think about it. Look over your life. For what small infraction have you failed to forgive yourself? Where have you fallen short of your own expectations? What have you left undone that should have been done, what did you mean to say but never got around to? Do you feel that? Do you feel the cold blade that slices into your heart yet leaves no wound??

I think regret is hell. And regret can tear apart the soul as hooks to the flesh.

So, the question becomes, how do we avoid hell? Perhaps the answer is as simple as remembering to temper all we do with compassion and love. Leave this life with no regrets because it has been a life well lived. Your God will respect that and welcome you back into the fold.

Peace and Brightest blessings, JL.

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

To all who read my poems and left a message. i say thank you u kindly.

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexgrey

When we die, our bodies are left behind, correct?
That means that our senses are no longer the tools
we use for vision, awareness, and feeling. I'm not denying
the very existence of Hell, but I do question the concept of
it being some horrible, unforgiving physical place with
curses, unbreakable laws, and unthinkable apathy.
As we die, we are said to "go to the light." The only thing
we can concentrate on while dying is going to the light,
so how can we have a choice? It's the only thing we're even
aware of at the moment, as far as I've read. So someone say
something. How can macabre visions of being chained up in
a fiery well-like furnace, in an abyss of darkness, which can't
be, considering the glow from the aforementioned flames, being
raped or such by demons or having the flesh rend from your body
and instantly heal again... how can that be an accurate depiction
of what true Hell is? We say our days have been hell, but in reality,
it just didn't go our way. It was uncomfortable, miserable, unplanned,
and just not fair. Regardless of books you read, I believe God has
a different plan for those who defy his word and live for themselves.
I don't believe the creator of all has enough empathy nor apathy for
the concept of a live-action Hell. Dungeon of fiery, eternal despair
and torment. I don't believe the concept to be as solid as it sounds,
even if it's in another dimension or on the astral plane.

About that comment, "I don't believe the creator of all has enough empathy
nor apathy for the concept of a live-action Hell" was over the top. I meant
that He knows that Hell as we know it is NOT productive, and there is no
lesson to be learned from it. God is about judgment and redemption, I think,
not torment and sadism.

By the way, this face is the creepiest emoticon I've ever seen:

Last edited by sharongerber171 06-03-2009 at 06:49:45 AM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Well living in Michigan I can really say that I have been to hell, I went there 3 times, Its a small place, Quiet and not much there. Go on I-96 to Howell exit , south to Pinckney Mi. and the next village is HELL.. nice restaurant there called The Damn Site Inn not sure if they serve Ice water......So Yes there really is a Hell

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

I don't want to cause a commotion, or an uproar, or a ruckus, or any other number of words that can describe the possible reaction to what I am about to say...but in the last 2 weeks, a close friend of the family died, and this morning, 2 weeks to the day, the young man's stepfather died, leaving his family even more devastated than before...this has seriously tested my belief in any kind of God, merciful, vengeful, or whatever...what was the point??? Two senseless deaths, a family overwhelmed by grief, all in a period of 2 weeks...the young man who died left behind a very young wife and a baby girl...where is the sense, the order in such things??? And my main question is, where was God??? Where IS God, at this point???

Re: Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

I am sorry for your loss and confusion. The reality of life is there is no replacement for our physical death. We face death every day with every breath we take as an individual! Animals don't shake their fist at God we do, thus a line is drawn as to You know God or no God.

I chose to know God and through this I have a purpose with directions and answers. The world fears death where a follower welcomes it for it is written to cry at birth into this world and rejoice exiting hmmm note a lot of things the world does is flipped opposite in Word! We can't see the future but we can know it, were as the world falls back on yesterday hence another flip. It is written that God is a fair and just. I trust this and live into it.

Don't think I am insensitive because I'm not. I lost my sister at a young age and this dealt me a blow so I sought answers to find why it to be so and now I know!

You are a mighty fine poet Plot121 and an intelligent man and again I'm sorry this touched you!

Pm me with questions or to ridicule me either would be fine!

Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding. Proverbs 3:5

Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. John 14:6 NLT(new living translation)

Who am I and what is what is found in the book of John and I pray that you find peace!

Re: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

Your premise, FoF, is that “a set of rules have been laid out”:
In fact, MANY “sets of rules” have been “laid out”.
The question is not whether to follow this or that set of rules, or even whether to disregard all rules and “wing it on your own” (which can be the most fun, if you don’t violate or let anybody else violate your own personal boundries).

But wait a minute! Your “personal boundries” ARE really a SET OF RULES that define what you personally can tolerate without being hurt or damaged in some way.

When groups of people want to try to live together & cooperate with each other, they ALWAYs create a set of general rules that pretty much prevent the personal boundries of members of that group of people from being violated.

That’s where human religious moral doctrines & civil law begins. Once promulgated, these moral teachings tend to become overly valued, in the sense that those who developed the laws always seem to believe that THEIR LAWS apply to EVERYBODY and protect and comfort ALL PEOPLE equally. BUT THEY DON’T! How could they when they were evolved by one specific group of people.

The only possible answer to that would be if GOD HIMSELF designed them. And that’s why all of the defenders of all of the different codes of morality as well as codes of laws say they were written by GOD. BUT all of these rules are no more than lists of agreements about the rules of social conduct among the members of some historic tribe….THAT’S ALL THESE RULES ARE!!

Do you honestly think God gives a shit whether or not you follow the rules & get along well with your peers or not? Violating those rules bring all kinds of HUMAN wrath down upon their violators…. THAT’S where HELL comes from…right here & now!

God must have more important jobs than playing S&M games with humans, wouldn’t you think?

RE: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

W O W

RE: Epiphany: How can one wind up in Hell?

How can one end up in hell? simple by not accepting jesus as thier Lord and saviour. you dont have to be the world's number one sinner to end up in hell, you just have to be one.
but in order to go to heaven you just have to say these words
" Lord God, i know i'm a sinner. and i know that your son came to the earth to save us sinners. i accept him into my heart. i want him as my Lord and saviour. thank you God! in jesus name amen."
if you say this prayer or want to know more, pm crazydude