|
RE: RE: Street poets VS. Academic poets
Quote:
Originally Posted by angel33614 Why are so many people bashing the street poet? Street poets are not always uneducated, this is a bad stereo type! I consider myself a street poet more than an acedemic one and I have a lot of college to my name, like two AA degrees and a BS. I also studyied much of the classic styles of poetry and prose, many of the greats. I just choose to write using my own style that fits me best, why is that so wrong? I think many academic poet's of their time were probably considered street poets by thier generation. Personally, I think a good 21 st century poet is a little of both. It does help to have a good sense of structure and proper grammer to better relate your message or the emotion of the write, but I don't feel all poetry has to have big words and use allegory to be considered good. My own thoughts are if the reader has to spend more time tying to figure out what the meaning of this word or that word, than more often than not, they will miss the true meaning of the poem all together. I know not everyone will agree with me, we each have our own opinions but there are poets that spend so much time trying to make thier poems look good that they loose the true meaning and power of true poetry. Just my rambling thoughts. I personally love reading and commenting on a good riddle, or a poem written in allegory, using a lot of hidden meaning, for me it is a challenge and I love a challenge! I enjoy nothing more than just to read a poem over and over till the little light buld goes off in my head, I am kind of the house of commentary, lol. But truthfully for the average reader much gets lost in th translation, just my thoughts. Take it as you will... Purity of the soul, journey well!!! Angel aka The Poem Buster, lol |
|
RE: RE: Street poets VS. Academic poets
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalassi Well, now that everyone seems to be in agreement with me, and since we've all kissed and made up, I would be the last one to say, "There, I was right all along!" Instead, let me suggest merely and most humbly, let's now drop this nonsense, and get about our business of penning poems that uplift the human spirit, tickle the shit (oooppps, sorry, I meant to say funny bone), and inspire a better tomorrow in us all! |
|
RE: RE: RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsTechnique: Quote:
Originally Posted by EinStud I have an idea for you. Don't worry about how you are as a poet. But DO deliberate your technique! You will never be the same as the others, if you do this ONE thing. Do you want to know? I'm tempted to hide it, and commercialize the answer, but I will give you the break... (and the thousands of others who care). Write a letter. Yes, that is the secret to poem writing and poetry. Write a letter. YOU sit down. Garner a pen, a paper, and a free mind. When all is calm. ... calm it as you will... Take your mind, and put it to paper... as if you are writing a letter to some person, place or thing. Then... THEN!!! (I love being dramatic)... Pull from that page ... pull and shape... a poem. There is the secret. God Bless. Gary, aka The Compusician, EinStud, BL8ant or any other name I can concoct.] |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsUntraditional is a very catchy phrase and I dig it wOOt slim aka Mr. untraditional lol sorry a blinding moment of transparent bull.. But imagine life without those who break the rules. I can't nor will I. hehehe like I am untraditional by learning to correlate the King's English into poetry of some sort. |
|
RE: RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsQuote: Originally Posted by ccslim Untraditional is a very catchy phrase and I dig it wOOt slim aka Mr. untraditional lol sorry a blinding moment of transparent bull.. But imagine life without those who break the rules. I can't nor will I. hehehe like I am untraditional by learning to correlate the King's English into poetry of some sort. To be a poet of today one must break rules set forth by presiding phd's and master's of Literature for one reason and that is to be different than them. imaGine that! My writing by far can't be used to illustrate proper technique but can be used for effort. Simple math is to keep trying past the negative and positive tho lying critiques. I still stand as I say trash can bards + stale English = 21st century poets. If that is a dis then so be it! Advise is to get head out of trashed and write fresh. I'm not sure I condone the breaking of rules. Robbing a bank and putting a bullet into the teller's head is breaking the rules in my opinion. Under the circumstances I wouldn't condone it at all. But creating new ways of thinking about the language is quite another thing. Actually the word "un-traditional" was coined by Sir Herbert Reed who was a very well know English Art Historian during the 60's. He made a lot of sense to me at the time. And it has all stuck with me. ===============ADDING A BIT MORE HERE.=============== Basically the word "un-traditional" means that you are willing to take information form any source available to you, and sort it out for yourself as well as formulate your own concepts about what you find works to bring about the end you wish. So technique is formed by choosing to be un-traditional to some extent for it is made up of all that you have learned through the process. While being un-traditional means you are willing to add anything else to the process as well. Form on the other hand is something very different than technique; it is far more specific. Form deals with the basics of any art as the structures for building or constructing anything into a final presentation. Like the 3 little pigs you can build a house of straw or one of bricks. That is your choice for a form in presentation of your choosing. To have a unique voice or a personal technique shouldn't eliminate any form or type of presentation at all. It fact personal voice should be able to absorb all other forms. Then most graciously technique and voice are far more creative in nature, and far more creative as an endeavor in the craft or media for the display of personal talent. It is very common for many to confuse form with technique, one may influence the other, but they are not the same thing at all. Personal voice is something very separate from the form of any presentation. Form can be specific to the individual piece of writing as presentation. Personal voice may be contained within any presentation as identity. But technique and voice shouldn't be restricted to any specific form at all if it wants to maintain its creativity. In fact quite the other way, voice should be able to acquire the use any form and make the form it's own. This would be described as having creative talent. That the writer is not limited by the presentation of any form at all. That the writer can make his personal voice and technique fit any form out there, as well as invent new forms to carry his voice and technique with intent to the reader. So it makes little difference weather you write a sonnet or a free verse poem, which are very different forms. But the identity of a specific voice as the writer will be carried by technique within any presentation of form. The voice should still be there if a writer has developed it as a personal identity. So Van Gogh can paint a landscape, a nude, a still life or a portrait, which are all very different forms, yet we still know it's a Van Gogh. Why? We know its a Van Gogh because of Van Gogh's individual technique, and not because of his choice of form when the painting was put into its presentation. And metaphorically that's the difference between the two, technique & form. There is truly no difference between free verse and metric verse in this sense of poetry; other that it's approach to the specific music within each form of poetry, which has nothing to do with voice or technique. One form writes music to the words and the other writes words to the music. A good song writer should be able to do both. I always profess that a good poet will learn to do both. Poet's are song writers and they should have all the tools of their craft in hand. And as far as the metric verse is concerned the word sonnet actually means "Short Song." Free verse is a just another form of song. What you bring to the individual poem as an individual writer is technique and individual voice. Many choose the easy way around understanding all this, and say: it is all poetry and if I write it and say it is poetry, it is poetry. This is self delusion. And it is truly not the case at all. For poetry has definite characteristics that have existed throughout time, the history of cultures, and it has remained in tact in every known language as well. Poetry is song, and it has the basic characteristics of song. It is song that uses language as its media. It is heightened language that is intoned as music with metaphor and form. Generally speaking it is something small that represents something very huge within its music. It is inclusive and never exclusive in nature. Poetry can be identified as poetry by its characteristics. a poet friend RH Peat Last edited by RHPeat 07-29-2010 at 03:41:34 PM |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poets
Last edited by kabbalistic 07-29-2010 at 09:20:19 PM |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsWhatever you do, try to do it well.....it's that simple. If you are happy with the result and feel you put your best into it, it really doesn't matter how others think or how they define it. |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetswOOt wise words shared by you three! I know proper grammer is infused with the word English and in my mind I seperate the two yet I fail to impart to print. |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poets
|
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsOK, I'll make it a little easier! Take your pick; "street" or "academic"? Are those the only two options that we're left with? How about "hybrid" poetry? How about "avante-garde" poetics? How about "beat" poetry? Does anyone want me to start a thread so we can explore these different influences? Would the other fine instructors be willing to collaborate with me on such an undertaking? Last edited by kabbalistic 07-31-2010 at 01:28:55 AM |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsWow, |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsMy dear brother, there are myriad of definitions about what poetry is, and also what it is supposed to be. It might be worthwhile to collect definitions and perspectives on the methodology and theory of poetry and the poetic process. We can then compare our own definitions and perspectives to the great wordsmith's of days gone by; my personal favorite is "poetry...is blood and intellect running together." WB Yeats. It would be nice to do a thread on this very topic. Is there anyone able to actually define street and academic poetry? What are they? What is the difference? What constitutes street poetry, and what constitutes academic poetry? Is Hallmark poetry also an "extension of the soul"? I believe that it behooves us to recognize that "boxes" in which we put poetry into, aren't necessarily the right "fit". You're still using "street" and "academic" as if they were foregone conclusions as being valid classifications; I submit to you that they are not. Last edited by kabbalistic 07-31-2010 at 03:05:09 AM |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetskabbalistic you make some excellent points. I read both pieces, and thought both are well written and entertaining. As far as knowing which catagory they fall in, I'm clueless lol! |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsDear vkabbalistic |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsWow! a lot of opinions flying around here on this topic from my friends. I don't usually post anything in the forums but when this one came in my email I decided to have a read. So I started at the beginning of this topic and read everyones comments and thoughts. Now I am glad I did. I think we are all missing one very important thing about poets and writing poetry. Let me explain it this way, with a little example. |
|
Street poets VS. Academic poets Vs Digital poetsI think Thought Caster questions here is fuel to the fire. Last edited by WordSlinger 07-31-2010 at 11:01:58 AM |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsThese are the words of our fellow poet Olan01 Quote: A Poet is Only As Good As Their Last Poem! http://www.originalpoetry.com/poet/Olan01 |
|
RE: RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsQuote: Originally Posted by Rafiqam Dear Caster! Unfortunately, before posting by Wordslinger I have had not encountered any classification as street poets and academic poets. To me it sounds that this classification may be done on the basis of formal education. Those who did not pass through the course of college/university level education may be placed in Class 1 and those who had in Class 2. As I have not read much about the history of English and American poets, it is better to quote some examples from the East. Street Poets: I agree with you that they are better critics of life around and add that they analyse environment through love and vision..Their message is sound and universal. Examples: Baba Bulley Shah Shah Hussain, Rehman Baba Sachal Sarmast Baba Fareed Shakar Ganj and many others Academic Poets: I agree that they are concept oriented and write in a more systematic way because they are well equpped with the academic tools. Their poetry better qualifies on the basis of set rules. Examples: Dr. M. Iqbal (PhD) Faiz Ahmad Faiz (Master) NM Rashad (Master) Ahmad Faraz (Master) and many others As far I am concerned , i have an equal appreciation for both hiya Rafiqam..please don't think me just a dummy, but can you tell me what the title (Master) refers to on the acedemic poets examples you listed. I can understand other titles like PhD but I don't recall ever seeing that title (Master) used...Course I am a poet without all that formal education that has been spoken about in this topic......thanks just curious..... asha |
|
RE: RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsAngel my friend I totally agree with you. I guess considering the fact that I had no formal education on writing poetry that some would consider me a street poet...but even that statement is wrong, because who says the street poet has to be uneducated.........So I look at myself and my style a little differently than most.....Others have mentioned a few more types of poets like the video/movie making style of doing a poem.........well I don't exactly fit in that one either.......My favorite quote to describe myself in one of my own....as a poet and a photographer of natures beauty and her wildlife, I always say this. Quote:
Originally Posted by angel33614 Why are so many people bashing the street poet? Street poets are not always uneducated, this is a bad stereo type! I consider myself a street poet more than an acedemic one and I have a lot of college to my name, like two AA degrees and a BS. I also studyied much of the classic styles of poetry and prose, many of the greats. I just choose to write using my own style that fits me best, why is that so wrong? I think many academic poet's of their time were probably considered street poets by thier generation. Personally, I think a good 21 st century poet is a little of both. It does help to have a good sense of structure and proper grammer to better relate your message or the emotion of the write, but I don't feel all poetry has to have big words and use allegory to be considered good. My own thoughts are if the reader has to spend more time tying to figure out what the meaning of this word or that word, than more often than not, they will miss the true meaning of the poem all together. I know not everyone will agree with me, we each have our own opinions but there are poets that spend so much time trying to make thier poems look good that they loose the true meaning and power of true poetry. Just my rambling thoughts. I personally love reading and commenting on a good riddle, or a poem written in allegory, using a lot of hidden meaning, for me it is a challenge and I love a challenge! I enjoy nothing more than just to read a poem over and over till the little light buld goes off in my head, I am kind of the house of commentary, lol. But truthfully for the average reader much gets lost in th translation, just my thoughts. Take it as you will... Purity of the soul, journey well!!! Angel aka The Poem Buster, lol |
|
Show Me What Your Working With She Said, lolI don't compete, because I'm so complete Last edited by WordSlinger 07-31-2010 at 03:04:11 PM |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsExcellent information, John, and I thank you for sharing....best to you. |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsThere is some fine teaching going on here, |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsheya my awesome wordslinging friend.......lol.....yes I'm trying to make your head swell......grinsss......ya know I love all your work...thanks for the youtube invite.....I have a couple videos I made on my youtube page, I am working hard on learning how to make some poetry videos, but anyway have a look at the two I have.....one is rather shocking about the plight of wolves the other is some of my picture I took of wildlife and put to a certain kind of songs to give it a comical edge...if you watch what pictures show along with certain words in the songs(ex; friends in low places, you should see image of the toad)...lol.....keeping my fingers crossed that the timing comes out right on your end.....hopes ya enjoy...oh and btw, have a read please of my post from yesterday morning and I hopes ya get a good laugh out of my blunder.....sitting here with my arm in a sling can't move it but at least I did not break my shoulder.........the post is called..."Oie Vay, I Fell Down and Went Boom.........lol.....yes it is meant to give everyone a laugh....also, check out the post I did today on some really great art mom sent me in email this morning...its not a poem just some great art.....post title is "What Great Artistic Creativity.....thanks my awesome friend......grinssssss |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsOriginally posted by ApaqRasgirl : |
|
RE: Street poets VS. Academic poetsOne does not need the fancy words, Asha.....read Sylvia Plath's DADDY and you'll know what I mean. The important thing in poetry is the emotion you are able to put into it. When you can transfer the passion from your body into your poem, people will know it. When you fake it, people will know that, too. Actually I wrote a small ditty to illustrate that point.... |
Poetry is not an expression of the party line. It's that time of night, lying in bed, thinking what you really think, making the private world public, that's what the poet does.
Allen Ginsberg (1926-1997) U.S. poet.