Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

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Re: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Does anyone here know how to put poems up with spaces between the stanzas? I can't seem to get anything to work, so now I just print (space) between my stanzas. It's not great, but it works. I'd much rather be able to actually have spaces. Please help me if you can.

linlee

Re: SPANISH

Re: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

I have to thank you Paczki, I have written and posted many poems in Spanish here.

RE: Re: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Quote:

Originally Posted by linlee

Does anyone here know how to put poems up with spaces between the stanzas? I can't seem to get anything to work, so now I just print (space) between my stanzas. It's not great, but it works. I'd much rather be able to actually have spaces. Please help me if you can.

linlee

RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Okay, I'm probably not going to make any friends with this, but what I want to know is, why is the quality of poetry here so generally low, and what criteria are used for determining the weekly winners?
Please understand my background. I was brought up reading poetry. My mother was a teacher, as was her father. My sister is a Classics professor. Some of my own poetry has been published. One contributing poet I respect highly, JLorian, attracted me here. (I'd follow that lady's work almost anywhere.) But when she won the other week, it was with a poem she doesn't think is particularly good herself. And I have to agree, it's a far cry from her best work.
Overall, I see strained metre and bad rhyme in the formal verses being contributed - in the cases when they even stay consistent as "formal verse" from start to finish, which wasn't the case in a recent winner. I see emotional self-indulgence and no artistic discipline in practically everything.
I think this site has the potential to be a significant voice in poetry today. And it seems to me that's being thrown away.
Art is more than passion: it's the discipline of craft blended with the creative fire. Without that balance, without that discipline, what passes for poetry is just lines that don't reach the right-hand margin.
So... where are the standards? And what can be done to raise them?

Last edited by Gereg 08-09-2010 at 01:38:19 PM

Good, bad, or indifferent...

Hey there Gereg.....your name is interesting.....the same forward or backward.
You have to look further into the works here to get a better slant on the type
of poets who reside here in OP land...........

................................................gogant

RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Yes, it's true; I am a walking palindrome.
I admit I have looked at little more here than the entries in the weekly contest, and a few other works of the writers who entered pieces. But practically none of what I've seen so far - including the winning pieces - has been of publishable quality.in traditional poetry publications. And that disturbs me.
Which leads me again to the question: who decides the winning pieces? According to what criteria? And - my chorus - what can be done to raise the standards?

RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Gereg, nice to meet you,

I have two ideas for you.
1.Start a thread, and post weekly poems that you consider winners.
Tell us why you think they are, and maybe poems that run up
to the one you think are a winner.


2. We have the School of Poetry, I think it would be cool for you to start a class.
We have great Teachers there, I don't know if you have read any threads, but they are very resourceful. Show us what you know.

Just some ideas, to help the poetry community.


John E WordSlinger

RE: RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Slinger has a good idea, Gereg........................

-Papa Paczki
Welcome to the site, Gereg. All contest winners are based on the most
comments with the highest ratings. Its user "voted".

Hey papa, I was going through the winning poems and noticed one
winning poem had the "Ratings disabled" noted on it. I was wondering...
How was that possible ?

RE: RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Gereg,
I find some good poetry on here and others (my own included) not so good. But when I signed up I felt this was going to be a learning and growing experience for everyone. You learn from the critiqueing of your peers .

If you find this site so distastful for your high, arogant standards then leave and find a site that is more on your professioal level of writing, but don't put down others who are writing from their hearts and learning.

As far as picking winners to be published my thought was that the winners would be published in a book but one of beginner poets and those who have a heart and write from it.

Take you inflated ego to another site if we are so distasteful to you. As you can tell I do not care for arogant people, my own son is that way because he is quite well off and I do not like the change in him with his arogant attitude and you sound just like him. Remember you can always keep all your education but the rug could be pulled from you some day and you may even end up homeless. It has happened you know so don't think it can't.

Last edited by sarahredhawk 08-11-2010 at 10:44:00 AM

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RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

I have found OP to be like a home with many rooms where friends often gather. Some of my friends have better conversational skills, some are deep thinkers, some are romantics and some are incredibly great poets. You will find the poets here who speak to you, in your language and I would encourage you to stay and visit for awhile before dismissing the site. Just like life, you will find people who speak the same language as you. I do not consider your post arrogant at all, I consider it fair comment from a poet new to the site. I welcome you to OP.

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RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

I go along with Aria……Gereg was honest in his words and he wasn’t
being arrogant….just stating his opinion. He commented on one of my
poems, and showed me that he has, in my opinion, some good points
to share with all of us here. Being nasty to him makes no sense….he
wasn’t being nasty with his thoughts…just being honest.....

RE: RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Well, Sarah, I didn't expect to make a lot of friends with my note: so this reaction doesn't exactly surprise me. But my impression is that you're missing the point I was trying to make.
First, let me observe that I don't put down learning or the heart. If you take another look at what I wrote, projecting a little less of your own emotional reactions onto some of it, you may observe I never said that. More or less, I said that art is the blending of passion and craft.
There's nothing wrong with a personal learning process. But a true friend won't tell you you're ready for publication when you're not.
Maybe I will go someplace else, but if so, it won't be because I'm "arogant" (to use your creative spelling of the word). And it won't be because some people are wounded by the truth I speak. If I go, it'll be because I don't believe that the dialogue is mutually productive.
You can trust me or not; you can read my one verse here for yourself and see if you really think my ego is inflated.
To be honest, I doubt I sound all that much like your son: I think that's projection. You have no idea what my standard of living is; you give me the impression you imagine it to be much higher than it is. I've been close to homeless, and in this economy, there's no one immune to that concern. So please don't make assumptions or projections: take what I have to say on its own, without your own presuppositions piled on top.
I may - or may not - have a better understanding of poetry than someone else. That doesn't mean I think I'm a better person.

Last edited by Gereg 08-11-2010 at 07:52:39 PM

RE: RE: RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

"When someone, like yourself, claims to know what poetry is or isn't because of their “academic up-bringing”, I tend to sense their ignorance more than their intelligence, because some people are educated beyond their intelligence."

So you conceive that I was educated beyond my intelligence? Interesting take on it. I would have said that it took a certain amount of education for me to express myself as clearly as I wanted to.

"What came first, raw poetry or academic poetry? —we all know the answer."

What's the oldest recorded poetry, and just how 'raw' is it? There's a reason that the oldest work that still remains to us is as carefully composed as it is. The rawer work didn't survive. And for that, too, there is a reason.

"Poetry is neither this or that, it's neither form or not form, which allows poetry to be a meaningful, lawless, decay of formal writing that allows the poet to disembowel the tight guts of academic dogma"

Um... is a "lawless, decay of formal writing" meant to be a plus? And how can anyone "disembowel the tight guts of academic dogma" without first understanding it?
"Neither form or not form"? This is fine for a Zen koan, but not so productive for rational dialogue.
If you want to be a painter, you must have control of your paints and brushes. If you want to be a sculptor, you must have control of your clay or your stone, your hands or your chisels. Poetry is different only in the type of tools you must learn to control. Otherwise, it's not "a meaningful, lawless, decay of formal writing that allows the poet to disembowel the tight guts of academic dogma"... it's simply self-indulgence. Imprecise language use is so common today that it's become acceptable to regard that as the norm even in the art that most demands precision.

"Arrogance is a sign of fear or failure in one’s life, or a sign that one has lost control of their divine spirit."

High standards are often mistaken for arrogance. That is not the failure of the divine spirit, but of something far less exalted.

I wonder if you've read Pirsig's _Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance_? He addresses a great deal of what I'm getting at far more cogently than I could...


"Yes, there is a lot of insignificant poetry on this site, and there is a lot of powerful poetry too,
so for someone to charge this site with being lame or disturbing is venting their own unhappiness,
their own failure, and their inability to function as a content human being."

My, but for a person who accuses me of arrogance, you've gotten awfully judgmental on your own. Pots and kettles, please. In what way are your own comments less than arrogant?
Note also that I never said "lame" - that's your own inference.

"If you are truly discontent in being here then you are wasting your vital energy on placing yourself in a negative situation.... You create choices in life, so why be negative about your choice to be here?"

Neatly put. In fact, I'm trying to decide if I am, in fact, choosing to be here. You are not encouraging. I don't mind being disagreed with... but I like to see it done more clearly, and with less of the very quality of which you have chosen to accuse me.
For you to take so high a tone with me while labelling me arrogant is nothing short of paradoxical. ... And a little comedic.

"If this site is not to your “poetic pallet” then create a new metaphor, or a new illusion, for feeling or experiencing happiness."

That's "palate", I believe, as in taste, or possibly even "palette", as in a painter's colours... rather than "pallet", as in waste lumber used for shipping...

In truth, I'm just seeking a community of equals who can spur me to greater heights... and who can profit, in turn, from what I have to offer.

Blessings and good faring,
Gereg




[/quote]

Last edited by Gereg 08-11-2010 at 08:29:22 PM

RE: RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Aria, I thank you for a polite and supportive response. You are encouraging and kind.

RE: RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Thank you for taking my points as I intended them. We may not agree on some things, but between us we have the skills to communicate civilly... and even to disagree politely.

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What leads you to project insolence... or arrogance... onto that statement? As in another of your notes, your own tone speaks to me of pots and kettles.
I was being neither harsh nor callous. What I was being was objective. And by objective standards, what I said is true. Read more of what's being published as poetry internationally, and you will see that it's true.

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That is lovely; but based on my experience over at Webook - where a couple of my poems were published, in the "Very Best Of Webook Poetry" anthology - I found that I was in company with some poets whose work I was honoured to share space with... and others who embarrassed me. Based on those votes, I have come to suspect that art is inherently not democratic. (I'm starting to sound like a third-rate Oscar Wilde there.)
Thank you for a solid informational answer. Ultimately, that may be what I most needed to hear.

Welcome to the site, Gereg. All contest winners are based on the most comments with the highest ratings. Its user "voted".

-Papa Paczki[/quote]

RE: Sticky: READ BEFORE POSTING!

Art is the opposite of democratic.

I thank you all for your insightful and insight-provoking contributions to this dialogue.
At least one kind soul has suggested that I start a 'class' here. I spent a couple of years over on Webook getting a reputation as (alternatively) a powerfully constructive critic and a raving elitist. That began to seem like an unprofitable use of my time, as I wound up giving a great deal more critical feedback than I got... and like the note "Dah" left on my (now deleted) poem, much of the feedback I did get seemed far more personally than artistically motivated.
Much of my commentary was appreciated very much, much of it was not. But it wasn't helping ME grow any. Like OP, it seemed like more of a supportive social network than a serious online writers' group.
At this point I'm trying to finish a novel, get an album recorded, write reviews of music and literature for a magazine that respects my opinions enough to publish them pretty regularly, and find a better job. I mean no offense to anyone when I say I don't have time for this.

I ask you to believe that it is not the fact of disagreement, but ultimately the quality of it, that is guiding me to leave this site. "Dah" has wisely (if with somewhat fuzzy logic) observed that if this isn't a place that contents me, I should leave.

But I'd like to leave you with this thought: when art is voted on, it becomes a popularity contest, a social network. It gains a warm fuzzy feeling, perhaps, but loses much of what gives it its power.

If you want to grow artistically, you must find a place that not only approves of you - for that is vital - but challenges you as well. How many of you are finding yourselves challenged by the way this place is running at present?
To quote Bob Dylan, "He not busy bein' born is busy dyin'."
I'm off to be born. I wish you all the same. That's not a wail of frustration... that's a birthing cry.

Last edited by Gereg 08-11-2010 at 09:27:18 PM